Curse

Nechtan Thaumaturge · Sep 10, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Wouldn't it be quicker to simply run past the Bladed Aatxe (dealing with the Grasping Darkness in the same way the Ritualist does) and head straight to the smites?

I played around with this idea when I despaired of ever killing the Aatxes, but I've since decided not to go that route. Broadly speaking, my thinking is that you can either kill everything in about an hour or just kill the Darknesses and Smites in about half the time. Either way, you'll get about the same number of ectoplasms per unit time, but you'll have to do the abbreviated run twice as many times. This means that you pay the 1k entrance fee twice as often, which eats away at your bottom line. Saying it a different way, I want my 1k to go as far as possible.

But...

If that's not your cup of tea, it is possible to run around the Aatxes a la Dahnel's Ritualist build. You just have to change things up a bit, of course. Drop Spirit of Failure for Windborne Speed and set your attributes to 16 Earth Magic, 12 Energy Storage, and 7 Air Magic. Then, you proceed as outlined in Dahnel's post (I think there is a Ranger build out there as well that works similarly).

Basically, you take the Clearing the Chamber quest immediately. Then, aggro the Grasping Darknesses and use Windborne Speed to run off the Aatxes and Dying Nightmares. The Darknesses will stay with you, and you can take them out in isolation. The key to taking out the Darknesses without Spirit of Failure is to pace yourself and lean on the staff attacks; Sliver Armor will do the rest. When all the Grasping Darknesses are dead, carefully run past the Aatxes to the Smite Crawlers and farm away. It will take somewhere between 30 and 40 minutes to make this run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karalin Taucher

Wow... OK I tried this with the -empathy +stone daggers variation...

it's hard work.

I'm very inexperienced in the UW, so I'm sure thats a big part of my problem, but I found it

hard not to get interrupted on magnetic aura or something else vital...

One time I forgot to put SoF up, and ran out of energy to renew stuff, so died...

Yeah, I have to admit it's a pretty difficult build to run. But stay with it, and you'll find it rewarding in the long run. After some practice, you'll learn to predict what's coming next at any given time, and things will become much simpler. Aside from that, the biggest piece of advice I can give you is once you get settled into a battle (you've killed the Dying Nightmares, moved to a safe place, etc.) don't watch the battle itself. Pay attention to the Effects Monitor (where your current enchantments are), the Skill Bar, your energy and health levels, and the Target Display (the info on the current Target). The battle itself usually doesn't give you a lot of useful information. Lastly, if you are using only the mouse, I would strongly recommend taking advantage of the keyboard shortcuts as well. I don't know if any of this is applicable for you, but I figured I'd throw it out there in the hope that someone benefits.

Incidentally, you shouldn't have too many problems keeping Magnetic Aura up. To start with, make sure you get the first one up before the Aatxes/Darknesses get to you. After that, be certain to cast it before the previous Magnetic Aura finishes. If you do these two things, the probability of the losing a Magnetic Aura to a Savage Slash/Distracting Blow should be negligible. Also, make sure you are casting Stone Daggers anytime you aren't casting something else and have the energy. The Aatxes/Darknesses will generally waste their interrupts on a Stone Daggers sooner or later. Also, to be safe, you may as well cast Spirit of Failure any time it has recharged.

Ok, hope that helps.

joncoish · Sep 12, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

I don't have much experience with running underworld so maybe this post will be pointless, but I've been playing around with this build in some smaller areas to get the hang of it before trying underworld solo. I've found that replacing empathy with an area effect spell from the earth line to be better in those smaller areas, and so am wondering how it would transfer to underworld? For one you free up more attribute points, so you can boost up inspiration more to get better energy management, and you can boost earth to 16 to get better armor and damage from your earth spells. Maybe I'm not aware of some other thing that's the reason why empathy would be better in underworld, so just wondering.

Yanman.be · Sep 12, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

They alot of AL, so aftershock is not that good, empathy deals armour ignoring damage.

Crystal Wave is...not good enough because of the recharge time...

Nechtan Thaumaturge · Sep 12, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by joncoish

I've found that replacing empathy with an area effect spell from the earth line to be better in those smaller areas, and so am wondering how it would transfer to underworld?

Yeah, it seems at first that you would want something like Aftershock or Earthquake over Empathy, since Empathy is only doing 25 damage compared to more than 100 for the Earth AoE spells and you're damaging only one Aatxe instead of several. There are a couple of problems with using these, however, and they mostly have to do with the Bladed Aatxes.

The first thing is that they have something north of 100 armor, which means that Elementalist spells will do less than half as much damage as they should. Meanwhile, Empathy doesn't change, it still does the 25 that it did originally. Secondly, Bladed Aatxes have innate healing giving them 3 bars of health regeneration constantly. So, in order to make any progress, you have to do at least 6 damage a second. Otherwise, they will just heal whatever damage you are doing, and you'll get nowhere.

So, consider Aftershock now. You cast it and do 48 damage, approximately, then wait 10 seconds for it to recharge. During that 10 seconds, the Aatxes will heal for 60 damage; so, it's as if you did nothing to them. Empathy meanwhile will have been hitting an Aatxe for 25 everytime it attacked (something like once every 1 1/3 second). Over that ten seconds, it would do something like 187 damage, and so you're 127 damage to the good. The key is keeping pressure on them.

The idea of consolidating (also suggested by Heelz above) is a good one, however, and dropping Empathy to boost Inspiration and Earth Magic attributes can work. The spell you really want, however, is Stone Daggers. It will hit for a total of 26 every 1 3/4 seconds against the Aatxes, which yields 148 damage in ten seconds. That's not as good as Empathy, but it's still above 60. However, since you are casting more frequently, you heal better with Aura of Restoration, plus you now have a good option against the Dying Nightmares.

EDIT: I found out the real number is 3 bars of regeneration, not 5, and changed the calculations accordingly.

digimonizm · Sep 20, 2006, 10:02 AM // 10:02

if you wouldn't mind posting a video

Vladmir Mironov · Sep 20, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Yeah. I've been looking for/waiting for a video of this working.

Elementalist soloing Underworld I'd like but don't yet believe.

Nechtan Thaumaturge · Sep 25, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Videos now up! Check the various sections of the original post.

Vladmir Mironov · Sep 26, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Wow. These videos are great and a real help. Well Done.

Rin · Sep 26, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

very nice. I would've thought the chance of hitting would be much more on the higher side than what is shown in the vid. I'll have to try it. Reminds me of the N/me midnight Ssaki solo build.

indarn · Sep 30, 2006, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Where are you found the shield please ?

Nechtan Thaumaturge · Sep 30, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

First off, thanks for the comments everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by indarn

Where are you found the shield please ?

I got mine from a collector, Vargil the White, in Mamnoon Lagoon by trading for Ancient Eyes, but you can craft something similar by talking to Nago in Wajjun Bazaar also. Incidentally, just about any -2 damage while enchanted shield will work, although the additional health is nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rin

I would've thought the chance of hitting would be much more on the higher side than what is shown in the vid.

Yeah, you're generally pretty safe. In fact, if you have Magnetic Aura, Sliver Armor, and Spirit of Failure up at the same time, the cumulative effect is about the same as blindness, i.e, [1-0.75]x[1-0.5]x[1-.25] = 9.4% chance of getting hit. That still doesn't make you invulnerable, of course, but you are usually pretty cozy.

SassiLady · Oct 03, 2006, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Excellent build. Went in with my ele all ready to go, took me hrm about 6k before I got the hang of it, (dying nightmares are suuuch a pain). Extremelly impressive, rather quick as well, Thanks for making such a great build, keep up the good work

Vladmir Mironov · Oct 03, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Sorry if I missed this if it's there but...

How many Aatxes can you take at once? I saw a lot of two and one in the videos. But don't remember seeing you fight a group of 3.

Could you also tell me how many Graspes and Smites you can handle at once?

You answering any of this would help me a lot. Thanks.

Nechtan Thaumaturge · Oct 04, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vladmir Mironov

How many Aatxes can you take at once? I saw a lot of two and one in the videos. But don't remember seeing you fight a group of 3.

Could you also tell me how many Graspes and Smites you can handle at once?

I tend to play on the conservative side, so I keep it at a maximum of two Aatxes. You can take on three with a little extra effort, though. Four is doable, but you need a fair amount of luck. Anything beyond that is suicide. Also, rounding up more than two typically means you're running the chance of unearthing a Dying Nightmare unexpectedly, so tread carefully and be quick on the keyboard/mouse. Finally, make sure that you don't get surrounded; you want to have an escape route available.

As far as the Grasping Darknesses go, you should be able to take on two groups assuming that you get the initial Spirit of Failure and Sliver Armor off. So, something like six or seven at a maximum. One possibility that I haven't investigated is to get the Clearing The Chamber quest at the beginning, then fighting the Darknesses and Aatxes simultaneously. In that case, you are talking something like a maximum of two Aatxes and three Darknesses.

With the Smite Crawlers, the sky is the limit. You can, and should, aggro as many as possible. Again, the only real complication is that you risk running across a Dying Nightmare while doing this. I think the maximum I've fought at one time is 14, but you can aggro 20 or more given the right spawn, or so I understand. I might suggest throwing up Magnetic Aura for extremely large groups, however.

Finally, I wouldn't recommend taking on extra groups, in any case, until you get quite comfortable with the build.

Crusheer · Jan 01, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Hi,
i wanna try ur build, but i dont have factions yet, so i ask u: Is Sliver Armor so important? Could it be switched to another skill pro prophs or core?

Kyubbi · Jan 01, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

very nice i wish i shouldnt have deleted my ele

Equites · Jan 01, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Just looking at this, i would say probably not (to dropping sliver armor). Going from memory, sliver armor does about ~35 dmg every time you are attacked to one nearby enemy. Against 2 pissed off aataxe this spell deals out roughly 70 dmg every 1 1/3 seconds (before armor of course). Against 14 smite crawlers, however, this spell puts out about 500 dmg every 1 1/3 seconds (again before armor), making this spell irreplacable, let alone the dodge bonus it provides. Essentially, sliver armor puts out a ton of damage and gives you around 40% miss chance on enemy attacks. Jeeze, reading what i just wrote makes me want to go get sliver armor on MY ele, think i'll go do that

. Btw nj on the build, original and modified!

BTW, after 10 seconds against the smites this will do somewhere around 3500dmg? wait.... someone check my math here plz. 35 per attack * 14 smite crawlers every 1 1/3 seconds no? thats 490. 10/(1 1/3) is about 7. 7 * 490 = 3430.... Of course, even if thats right, its still wrong b/c at that rate, u'd b knocking off smites left and right and lowering sliver's dps

.

Marverick · Jan 01, 2007, 11:15 PM // 23:15

With NF released I think Mantra of Earth + Stone Striker would serve better energy management than Spirit of Failure. Also Stoneflesh Aura can replace Aura of Restoration... you don't take damage, you don't need healing.

Sandstorm *might* work if you can manage to KD the Smites and hit them with Aftershock and Crystal Wave before they run away.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 01, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Wouldn't sliver armor cause them to run now...

Nechtan Thaumaturge · Jan 02, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

It lives! My thread lives!

Seriously though, thanks for the interest. I've run the build, in it's original form, since the 10/25 updates, and, by in large, it's still intact. Empathy doesn't last as long, so you should cast it more frequently now. In fact, whenever it has recharged and you have two seconds and the energy to spare, cast it. It does more damage, however, which is kind of nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Wouldn't sliver armor cause them to run now...

As far as the AI updates go, both Sliver Armor and Empathy will cause scattering for groups larger than three in number. It's not a big deal with Empathy since you only use it against the Aatxes and Grasping Darknesses and, in those two cases, the groups you're fighting generally contain three or fewer creatures.

However, Sliver Armor is your main weapon against the Smite Crawlers, which form groups up to five in size, not to mention the fact that you'd like to aggro several groups at once. So, the build takes a hit here. Above a certain number, perhaps ten or so, the Smites will die before they can clear "nearby" range, but between four and nine they will scatter successfully and make a complete mess of things. You can use the shoot-them-with-my-staff trick to bring them back in line, but it's still dicey. Generally, I'd advise taking just one group at a time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusheer

Hi,
i wanna try ur build, but i dont have factions yet, so i ask u: Is Sliver Armor so important? Could it be switched to another skill pro prophs or core?

Hmmm...Sliver Armor is about the perfect skill for this build; so, it's tough to find a replacement. With some patience, you should be able to kill everything but the Smite Crawlers just using Empathy, though. Stone Daggers is probably your best bet for a Prophecies-only replacement for dealing with the Smite Crawlers, but you'll bleed your energy dry before you can even get a kill. From there, you're options start going downhill; Aftershock and Crystal Wave are going to hit too many Reversal of Fortunes to really be helpful. Eruption is out of the picture due to the long recharge and massive scattering problems.

All in all, though, I think I'd suggest doing one of two things:

Forget about the Smite Crawlers and just kill the Bladed Aatxes and Grasping Darknesses -- incidentally, there are about 10 additional Aatxes in the various areas beyond the doors. In this case, you would probably want to up your Inspiration Magic attribute a bit and sub in Stone Daggers, although Wastrel's Worry might work about as well.
Try something radically different. I know Hyprodimus Prime posted an E/W Underworld build sometime within the last month or so, but I can't find it. If memory serves, the build used Bonetti's Defense as an energy source. There are also some E/Mo 55 hp variants out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

With NF released I think Mantra of Earth + Stone Striker would serve better energy management than Spirit of Failure. Also Stoneflesh Aura can replace Aura of Restoration... you don't take damage, you don't need healing.

Sandstorm *might* work if you can manage to KD the Smites and hit them with Aftershock and Crystal Wave before they run away.

Look for a new Elementalist Underworld build post in the coming days.